There's got to be at least a hundred 880 users here on the Planet...so if every one sent in one tip ....

Just another tip for today....invest in a surge protector for your VS. The software & hard drives are the same as all computers in as much that they self-destruct if a big current spike gets thru....

My second tip: keep a log!

I can't tell you what a time saver this can be. You may forget what's on virtual track A5 if you don't write it down. I keep a clipboard by my VS. Sure, scenes can be saved, but I always keep a hard copy (just like with any other computer).

I have an Excel (Office 2000) worksheet I designed specifically for recording sessions on the VS. If anyone would like a copy, email me off list and I'll send it to you (tjdesmond@hotmail.com).

With regard to getting a default recording mode (MAS, MT1, etc...)

Try creating a tune in "reverse". Write, play, or program a drum part first, then bass or piano or whatever, then guitars and/or vocals or whatever - depending on what your into. My short demo tune "Ode To Joe" was done this way and it came out very interesting - see for yourself at: www.mp3.com/porterhouse

Anyway...... just an idea.

This thread is a great idea.

First you should complete all your regular tracking, have all the proper V-tracks selected, and set the mixer to green mixer mode. Next, here are the steps to creating and editing a real-time automated mix.

1) Press the automix button.

THIS IS KEY --- During the automix process, the track select buttons (the top row of buttons over the faders) are used to indicate the automation status of each fader. These buttons should intially be flashing green. You change the condition of these buttons by SIMULTANEOUSLY holding down the lit automix button while pressing the select button for the desired track. (Roland didn't feel like telling you that!)The track select button should cycle through the following conditions:

a) Flashing green - Automation "record" enabled. Once you begin to record your real time automation, all faders with flashing green select buttons will have their fader movements recorded. All faders should default to this status when you first press automix.
b) Solid green - Automation "read". Select this mode when you wish to playback previously recorded automation for a fader and do not wish for new fader movements to be recorded for a track.
c) no light - Automation is turned off.

For the first pass through your mix, you will most likely want to set all faders to record (flashing green).

2) Zero the counter.

3) Hold the automix button and simultaneously press the tap button to place an automix marker at the 0:00 location. I don't know why, but you have to do this...

4) Hold the automix button and simultaneously press the record button. The "condition" (upper left corner of the display screen) should now be alternating between "play" and "mix." This indicates that the automation recording is enabled and once play is pressed, all tracks with flashing green status buttons will have their automation moves recorded.

KEY CONCEPT - Be aware of the "condition" while in the automix mode. Anytime you wish to be recording your automation, the condition must be alternating between play and mix. When condition just says "play", you will be playing back your previously recorded automation.

5) Press play. You will now be recording your automated mix, and the VS will be storing your fader moves as you mix your tracks. When you have completed your mix, press stop. The screen should say something like "updating" and then "completed"

You can now zero the counter and review your mix by pressing play. Even though the select buttons will technically still be in flashing record mode, the "condition" will now be "play" so the automation won't be erased.

So now you've listened back to your automated mix, and it's pretty good. Let's assume it's almost perfect, except you screwed up the level of the vocals on the first chorus and now you want to change that.

KEY CONCEPT - Editing previously recorded automation is a lot like editing previously recorded audio tracks. You have to plan where you're going to "punch in" and "punch out" so that the edit properly matches the rest of your mix.

1) Move to the location where you wish to edit your previously recorded automation. For this example, we want to repair a chorus, so we'd move to a location just before the chorus.

2) Set the automation status for each track. Hold down the automix button while simultaneously pressing the select button for each track to change it to solid green. This will set these tracks for automation playback. Then set the select button for the track you wish to edit to flashing green.

3) Set the physical fader position for the track you wish to edit. Do this by moving to the location of the edit in the song, and then pressing play. (You won't be recording any automation at this point, and the "condition" on the display screen should just say "play") Next, move the fader for the selected track. You'll hear the track level lock to the fader position, and then you can set the level to the appropriate spot for the start of your edit.

4) Press stop and then move back to the beginning location of the automation edit.

5) Now simultaneously press the automix button and record. The condition will again flash between play and mix. You automix edit will begin as soon as you press play.

KEY CONCEPT - When you press play to begin automating, your faders are not active until they are moved. Even if the vocal track in this example is set for automation record, unless the fader is moved, the track will play back it's original automation data. Once the fader is moved, automation will record the fader position until you press stop.

6) Press play and jiggle the fader (it should already have been placed at its approximate starting position during step 3, above). Your automation is now recording. During playback, record your fader moves through the point where you wish to make corrections.

7) Press stop. The screen will again say "updating" and "complete" to indicate that your new automation is being recorded.

Go back and listen to the results and decide if your mix is correct. If not, simply repeat the above editing process as many times as you'd like and voila', you've got your completed mix.

Once you've got all this absorbed and working for you, there are lots of things you can try. You may wish to begin by only mixing a couple of tracks, and then gradually, adding in 1 track at a time while replaying the automation previously recorded for other tracks.

Also, there's no reason that automation must be used for a final mix. If you've ever gone nuts trying to submix 4 or 5 guitar parts, simply automate the submix!

Hope this helps somebody out. I know it would have done me a lot of good to have this information about 3 months ago. Let me know if anything I've written is unclear. Good luck. Once you master this process, you're VS becomes a much much more powerful machine.

consider this a reminder. 3PM-4-02-01 Please post MS Access database for session notes.

Workforce Aluminum Tool Case
Model: #TC-00015-N
SKU: #191041

It is $19.97.

You can buy it through the Home Depot website, apparently.

2. Press shift+song to see the size (megabytes) of your song file.

I really appreciate what everyone at the planet is
contributing and I hope this may help someone
along the way.

The VS-Planet is a great site.
Thanks - Jerry Williamson

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Redwing

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: **xray-Y2K** ]

This is a cool thread, so I'll contribute an idea...
I always use two reverbs on the mixdown, one early reflections only and the other one with 'real' (i.e. longer) reverb. Every instrument gets a mixture of these both. By giving more early reflections, the voice gets into the 'front' while the 'reverbs' are more int the back. I have the impression that this gives some glue to the tracks, as everythings seems to be recorded 'together'. You can increase the depth effect, if your early reflections are brighter than the long reverb...

Axel

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Volltreffer ]

Hit me with your heartbeat,
Hano

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VS Family * VS Studio's * Hano in MP3 *

Normal your main analog inputs to a patchbay. For example I have a submixer feeding inputs 1 and 2 and a DAT feeding 3 and 4. If you need to plug in another device, insert it at the patchbay. You never have to plug or unplug from the back of the VS, saving considerable wear and tear on those jacks.

I have the outs set up in a similar fashion, half normalled to the DAT.

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Nashville, Like L.A. without a tan..

1. record 30sec or so of your favorite SBM onto say track1/2 v.8, save this as scene 4

2. when you are fine tuning a mix/master scene, toggle back and forth to scene 4

PS: anyone doing sort of a sheryl crow, lucinda williams thing want to trade CDs and mix master secrets??

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Daniel
Daneboy21@yahoo.com

I just had one more idea, that could be worth posting here (at least, this will keep this thread alive, so all newbie lurkers will be having instant tips )

When reading about compressors in here or in the yahoo vs_880_1680_1880 group, there is often recommended to use several compressors with a light compression in series rather than one with stronger compression. Why? The compressors have a hard-knee characteristic, which means that they start compressing quite strong from one point on, which can lead to noises when switching. I always wondered how all these guys managed to use multiple compressors in series. Did they print several times? Oooh that's kind of boring... In addition, you'll have one problem: the control of the compressors will be done by the compressed signal which can lead to strange results: releasing the first compressor might trigger the second one a.s.o. As my fingers already hurt, I'll come to a point how you can use three compressors in series while printing:

First, you create a copy of your track to compress. Make both tracks playable v-tracks. I'll just call them Track1 and Track2.
You use the COMP2 patch of the effects board on both effects.

Track1, you'll have to insert as INSERTL into FX1 and FX2. Track2 will be inserted as INSERTR into FX2.
The effect1 for Track1 will be used as SEND (probably post fader is best) with a send panning totally to the left. The direct signal will be set to zero and the return panning to the left and set to 100. Then you have three compressors 'inserted' into track1:

FX1:CMPA->FX2:CMPA->FX1:CMPB

You now have to take care of the detection for the compressors: FX1,CMPA should detect from A, FX1,CMPB (that is he send/return one) should also detect from A. FX2,CMPA should detect from B and FX2,CMPB is not used (only for triggering FX2,CMPA).

As everybody who reads this should now have lost his mind, I'll finish with this idea.

By the way: it works the same with the noise gates from COMP2, you can even use both simultaneously...

BTW, I read something about listening to your masters in cars, boom boxes a.s.o. . I alwys try to get my masters sound good that way (I don't own real monitors) ***BUT***: never do compare it to radio. I did this a couple of times first, and always had a big difference in sound --- why: radio sound is most often compressed to fuck (sometimes even badly compressed - you might be able to hear the pumping an an increased masking effet of voices/instruments/drums). Only compare to CD/MD or cassettes that are not recorded too hot...

These are some general rules to getting down drum mixes, which in my opinion are the hardest to learn and find tips on.

bass drum - if you want to find it prominent in your mix, let go of some of the lows and increase highs and mids in your equalization.

bass drums are difficult, try to put a mic on the outside head as well as the batter head to get a good thunk.

When mixing to a stereo track, make your bass drum just a little heavier in the mix. that way once you get the bass guitar and others, it won't be fighting to be heard or lost in the mix.

this is also true for toms and snares

if you don't want your cymbals to blare out the rest of the mix...do just the opposite.

the Vs comes with great pre-eq effect settings. try applying the PEQ effects to the individual drums as well as tweaking the boards EQ.

Cheers,

In my studios, I don't have any VS equipment, but I do use the 880 alot at different studios. Mainly this post is not VS specific, but IMHO very helpful.

When I'm setting up mics in my studio for clients, I usually send the signal of what I'm micing to a sub then to my wirless system into headsets. That way I can go anywhere I need to in my studio without any noise bleed from my headphones, and cables to get in the way.
I set my trim, bypass my eq, and put the fader at a nice listening level, then go over to what is being recorded, and move the mic for the sound that I want to record.

You can do that with normal headphones too, just make sure you have enough cable to go to where you need.

A tip for drums and other instruments:
Using the headphones, I have the drummer play a continuous riff for him/her to warm up, and so that I can put mics where they need to be with the least amount of bleed.
Generally the closer the mic is to the source, the less reverb/big it will sound.

For bass drums I usually use 2 mics inside the shell, one jsut a few inches from the beater, and another inside where it sounds the roomiest, as well as clear, not muffled.

Guitar amps are generally the same way. Vocals I use 3 mics in a triangle. One is directly infront of the singer as a dumy, it is there just to position the head. The other two are off to the sides of the singer, usually between 45 and 70 degrees, and of course with the phases reversed on the one mic. Generally most of the singers that I get in my studio generally don't sing the same way for every song, not to mention every part in a song, so this way, I pan both vocal mics down the centre, and send it to 2 tracks, and later mix it to one track.

Another for drums, its already been mentioned is the foam cover for the back of the mic. It is really good, but, it can sound crappy if the other mics arn't picking up what they should be (mainly the overheads). Generally if you use this method, overhead(s) are a must.

Again using the headphones while the musician is playing is one of the best tips that I can tell you for getting what you want recorded. As alot of you already know, it is alot easier to mix signals that you want, and sound how you want them, then trying to fix them with effects and sounding something that resembles what you want.

Another tip, is to document everything, fx settings, level settings, eq settings for both mixing, and recording. I keep a log of all the actions that I do, and the settings for future reference, for different projects. By the time a project is over, I usually have 7 CD's full for each song recorded of different mixes, different tracks, comparison mixes, etc, etc. And let clients listen to them to hear what they like, and different sound that they're looking for. That way I can directly go, and see what I did to get that sound at recording, and at mixing stages. Usually it makes a faster process this way when you are hiring yourself out, or just stuck at what you want a specific part sound like.

Wow, sorry about the length, I hope it is usefull.

Take care

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gv

quote:

---

Being a newbie, I read every post and learn something everyday from you guys.

---

You've come a long way Kat

Anyway here's my tip, I can't believe that there isn't anything on this list yet about SCENES.

Scenes are the greatest thing for expanding your creativity. You can answer those questions like "I wonder if I could get that solo better" or "What would it sound like if I tried this acoustic part with some out-there effects" or "How would this sound with an accordion solo"...(Just kidding on that last one.)

...And with Scenes you are at no risk of losing the sound (mix) that you have now, you can always come back to the current mix, exactly like it is, with all of the current effects, levels, panning, v-tracks, simply by saving your current mix as a scene.

To store your current mix as a scene, hit the scene button and then press "1". Once it is stored, turn the scene button off and then change away. Get crazy, try something new, maybe you can get it way better than it is right now by doing something totally new to you. Store the changes as as scene 2 and then switch back to scene 1 to see which you like better.

Later,
John

[ 05-24-2002: Message edited by: Jusgetten Started ]

Scenes may also be a great way to 'jot down' your way to mixing a record. You can store submixes for tracks to a scene. Then if you have to redo the submix, as something is too low, reload the scene tweak and re-print. Back to the mixdown scene and you'll immediately have your mix...

It could cook my breakfast. I've already spent too many mornings waking up next to this thing after a long night together.

Yeah - it could cook my breakfast. Thay's my dream feature.

Of course, it may already have that feature (Maybe the rare VS-880 BK...? Goodness knows the Yugo doesn't have that feature...even with the OS/OE upgrade...) and they simply omitted it from the manual.... I couldn't find it on the FAQ... sadness.

Ken

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UPDATED Pix of our Studio: "The Mill"

Logg On "FireLogg Website"

Now HERE'S a cool idea, IF it can be done. I've asked this in its own thread so consider it another call to suggestions on how one does it:

How 'bout using the VS as a mixer/controller for PC-based recording systems? LarryD said he got it to work for one fader, kinda messing around. Anyone do this regularly and document it?

Tim

[ 10-10-2002: Message edited by: tjdesmond ]

I'm wishing you a great recording.
Please let us hear something of your work one of these day.

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VS Family * VS Studio's * VS Pets * Hano in MP3

Is it a 6- or an 8- track ?

I'm secretly hoping that Dr.Hook will add this older thread to his fabulous FAQ pages.

Sentimental Hano

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VS Family * VS Studio's * VS Pets * Hano in MP3